Following the transfer of Licensing to Corporate Support Services the review of Licensing will be planned and reported to the next Committee.
Minutes:
The Chairman welcomed Simon Fisher, the Divisional Licensing Officer for Essex Police, who was there at the invitation of the Committee. They had concerns that they had not received many objections from the Police. He was asked to take the Committee through their procedure on how they decide to object (or not) to any particular application. Mr Fisher said that when an application was received, if they have any concerns they carry out a full investigation, including interviews. If they continued to have concerns then they would take it to the District Licensing Sub-committee. If, for example, they have a problem with personal criminal convictions they will talk to the person concerned and see if they can sort it out. This can have the effect to cause the application to be withdrawn. When it comes to Licensing Sub-committees, they do go through all applications and would have negotiated with applicants to modify or withdraw their application. Only a very few will need to be brought to the Sub-Committee. The cases that they have brought recently to the Sub-Committee have been led by Counsel, who was complementary about the way it was handled and the speedy way it was dealt with. Any infringements that we may receive intelligence about, we investigate and give out warnings etc.
Mr Fisher was asked about a recent Sub-committee meeting that reviewed a licence. The review was refused because of the low quality of evidence presented. The evidence was supplied by ECC and not the Police. Councillor Cohen remarked that the second set of proceedings were prosecuted by Counsel and were presented in a more legal way. As this sort of application was looking at taking away someone’s livelihood, it was only right for it to be more formal. In future will you continue to use the services of Counsel? Mr Fisher replied that it was difficult to answer this. If the other side was to be represented by Counsel then they would like to have their own Counsel there, other wise he would handle the case.
Councillor Morgan remarked that the evidence was much better for the second case. Mr Fisher agreed, saying the Trading Standards had learned from the previous cases. They were conscious that it had to be done properly, with enough evidence being presented. The Senior Licensing Officer commented that the Trading Standards people were surprised at the formality of the meeting and embarrassed that they did come completely prepared and will do better next time.
Councillor Cohen asked if the police were constrained by Trading Standards taking the lead. Mr Fisher replied that the Home Office has said that Trading Standards must take the lead. They were learning and getting better at presenting their cases.
Councillor Wyatt asked if they ensured that the young people used in test purchasing lived some way from the shop being tested. Mr Fisher confirmed that they were all drawn from different areas well away from the test areas to ensure that they are not known.
Councillor Mrs Smith said that the public were not aware of the background checks that the Police do for the applications and how they filter out the issues in the background. Could they not communicate this to the Neighbourhood Action Groups? Mr Fisher replied that they would if they were informed of their concerns. It was noted that the quality of evidence at a hearing had to be off the same standard of a criminal case.
Councillor Cohen commented that he had never heard a Police Officer ask an accused from “which premises you came from”. Mr Fisher said that the custody sergeant had a set number of questions to ask and the ‘where their last drink was’ was one of these.
The Chairman remarked that the premises serving someone who was the worst for wear should be asking these types of questions before they served them. Mr Fisher commented that some of the demands placed on the licensees by their parent companies were unrealistic. They have to make more money and so will do anything possible to get their margins up. There was great competition out there. He was a one man band, strapped for resources.
The Chairman thanked Mr Fisher for coming to this meeting and wanted to formally record the Committee’s thanks for all the hard work he has done in his role as Divisional Licensing Officer.